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Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets 
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Post Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
Hi all,

I'm after a set of rear bulkhead brackets to suit MK 1 Libra rear suspension. I have the early version which uses 8 individual brackets but I'm after a set of the later 4 No long brackets as shown in the picture below.

If anyone has any they'd be willing to part with, I'd appreciate a PM or message.

Cheers

Jamie 07920 039130


Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:37 pm
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
They just look like the early ones but with metall between the two brackets would of thought with some bits of plate and a welder the 8 separate ones could be replicated.=

I have the 8 separate ones on my car and would be intrested to know the benefits of this type of bracket over the ones I have.

Matty


Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:53 pm
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
I'm told the later ones were stiffer / stronger. I agree, the 8 could be made 4 by a competent welder - which I'm not unfortunately :D


Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:01 pm
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
Makes no difference whatsoever unless your going to put more bolts through, remember what is attached to the brackets, 'Ball joints' there is no way the brackets can twist, all your doing is adding yet more weight to the car.

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Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:14 am
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
That makes sense to be honest.

Wasn't one of the perceived problems of the original rear suspension, flexing at the rear bulkhead? Thought these were produced to stiffen things up a bit although I take your point.

Why was the rear suspension changed to the pillow type joint anyway? Was it just because the joint kept wearing out quickly?

Cheers

Jamie


Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:53 pm
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
I disagree about there being no benefit to the all in one brackets.

The ball joints were never meant to be used as load bearing suspension parts and did tend to wear out. The pillow joints are used in numerous suspension load bearing areas so are more appropriate.

TBH i've always thought you could modify the Mk1 type arms to use pillow joints with a bit of engineering & welding.

SAS

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Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:07 pm
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
Anyone tried rose joints?


Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:26 pm
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
If the rear bulkhead is flexing then there is seriously something wrong with whoevers car that reported so!! Personally I find it very hard to believe!!
Remember having a chat with Gerry Hawkridge at a show once, he had a stand next to GTM Cars and he also could not work out why they used Ball joints instead of Rose joints, they would have been a far better upgrade than a spongy rubber bush. :roll:

Jamie

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MG ZTT 180
Skoda Fabia VRS
TVR Griffith 400 (coming soon)


Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:58 pm
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
I remember reading about bulkhead flexing somewhere but not sure what the science is behind it?

Rose joints would definately be superior to a ball joint but they come with their own problems for road use so I'll be sticking with ball joints (for now at least).


Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:10 pm
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
As usual I agree with Sidewinders comments the bigger 4 brackets will flex less than 8 smaller ones. In my opinion a car that doesn't flex doesn't exist gtm quoted 1400nm force to twist body 1 degree which is good compared to other cars better than lotus elise .have you every tried lifting on steel bodied car on 2 post ramp then try to see how the doors open and close compared to when on it's wheels. I do not know why librakv6 mentioned a spongy rubber bush I have never seen a rubber bush in any variation of libra rear suspension mk1 had track rod ends used as pivots mk2 had pillow ball joints z cars had rose joints with a steel tube linking both sides of bulkhead to reduce bulkhead flexing that all cars suffer from.


Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:08 pm
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
The rubber bush i was refering to is the mk2 pillow bush, would have been better if they had upgraded it to a rose joint but i suppose these are no good for some people who may use their car all year round (salt on road etc).

I agree with mark production steel cars do flex when they are jacked at one corner, i remember stripping down a rover SD1 once to salvage an engine and box, it did have some rot to say the least and after i returned it back to the ground one of the front wheels remained in the air :lol: . However with regards to the Libra when jacked up at one corner it tends to lift the whole side of the car proving there is little if no flexing, if you look at the rear bulkhead there is triangulation alongside and above the wishbone brackets (which are about 6 inches apart) and are surrounded by the engine frame supports which are totally unable to flex in that plane.

I think all this talk has come from Z cars trying to win some business, was the z cars set up really a success? and if is was not are you going to admit it after handing over all that hard earned cash?

Cheers

Jamie.

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MG ZTT 180
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TVR Griffith 400 (coming soon)


Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:48 am
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
The mk2 suspension doesn't have a pillow rubber bush it is a pillow ball joint this like a rose joint with the thread part cut off so it can be pressed into a tube and it has a rubber dust boot like a track rod end so better for road use look at Sidewinders posts on his suspension for more detailed information


Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:11 pm
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
There was a lot of work done by a few people on TGTM by a coupe of engineers. Including a suspension engineer. FE analysis etc.

I can't remember a lot of it but....

It was found that there was flex in the bulkhead of all the cars tested. Some more than others. It was reported by a GTM employee that bulkhead thickness varied a lot between cars.

There was flex/deflection in various joints/ linkages.

I the end some fitted a brace across the bulkhead joining the brackets together.

One owner replaced the ball joints on the MK1 suspension arms with rose joints and was very happy with the outcome.

It has been reported by a lot of people that especially with the MK2 suspension, alignment often slipped due to the way it adjusts.

It's not really a surprise when you consider the number of parts used.

I had Z Cars fabricate the conversion for my car to address all the issues I and others had.

It was totally rigid. Removed the flex from the bulkhead. Was easy to adjust for toe & camber.

The down side is there is no increase in camber with roll that you could have with wishbones.

I thought that £1500 for a kit was pretty reasonable considering the results.

It cost me a lot more than that!

Hopefully Chris will get Z Cars back on track when the dust settles.


Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:48 pm
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Post Re: Libra Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets
Quick bump.

Still looking for these Mk1 rear suspension bulkhead brackets if anyone has some?


Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:49 am
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