Hi all,

My libra has the early mk1 rear suspension and I've noticed on pictures of other cars that the brackets bolted to the tub are 4 no long pieces but my car has eight individual brackets for each joint.

Does anyone know why they're is a difference and are the 4 brackets an updated / better set up?

Cheers

Jamie

The eight individual brackets were the early(first) version, they were later combined to give better strength/stiffness.

SAS

Thanks Sidewinder.

Anyone got a set of the later brackets they want to sell?

Interestingly, whilst sorting out my recently acquired (new and unused) Mk 1 and a bit rear suspension components, it is clear that the later 1 - instead - of 2 rear brackets had thicker blocks for the tapers to fit into. This should make it easier to draw the male and female tapers together, reducing some of the knocking for which these are famous. I had intended using the brackets I'm removing to make a set of one piece ones for the other car, but I'm going to have to re-think that, and perhaps machine some new taper blocks, which may well test my abilities to an impossible extent.

Regarding 4 brackets compared with 2, how can these be stronger your still using the same 16 cap bolts, and there is no way those smaller mk1 brackets can flex. The pure nature of the design of the bracket sees it cross braced horizontally and vertically.

Jamie

IMO it's the ball moving in the socket that causes the noise (as it wears) not the taper.

The flex mainly comes from the FG bulkhead, not the metal mounts, so the mounts were paired up vertically to reduce the effect.

SAS

The V6 monoque has a sculpted cutout in between both wishbone mounting surfaces to make space for the rear bank of cylinders, this in affect creates two box sections which are unable to flex because of the triangulation, I suppose with a 4 cylinder monoque with an essentially flat surface rear bulkhead you may get some deflection but I still find it hard to believe, a lot of race cars were built this way back in the sixties lotus etc.

On a different topic I am currently shimming the front suspension, I did have .25 degrees of negative camber but I,m after a bit more so I have made some shims. It didn't take long to remember what awkward job this is (especially doing it on yer tod!) I've gone for two more 3 mm plates hopefully to give 2 degrees negative combined. I have also made some wheel arche vents at the rear of the front wheel arches, after looking at the recent images of the terbulance created in the void behind the splash moulds going down the doors. Also I am making some brake ducts in fibreglass to direct air into the centre of the disc from ducted air from the front in preparation for some track days this year, I will post some pictures soon.
It's right what they say "a kit cars never finished"

You must have read my mind as I was thinking about camber on the front today. I've still got the passenger seat out of mine and the carpet and access hole covers removed from the kick plate from changing my steering rack and was thinking about adding a bit of negative camber on the front whilst its like this. Doing a bit of maths, assuming the wishbone mountings are, say, 200mm apart vertically then 3mm of shim would give tan-1 3/200 = 0.86 degrees. I've not measured the 200mm, that's just a guess from memory. If the bones are 172mm apart then 3mm would give 1 degree.

2 degrees seems quite a bit. I've only got 1.5 degrees on the back and that looks quite a lot.

What are you hoping this will give you in terms of handling?

I think I read somewhere that the standard build is to use 3mm shims top and bottom to give zero but then you can take away or add. Presumably if that is true you could get 6mm by taking the shims off the top and adding them to the bottom and not need to make any additional shims? Must check what I've got shim wise. Mine is definitely at zero camber on the front.

The suspension guru Dave - Track Developments suggested putting a rose joint to hold the top suspension arm so camber could be easily adjusted
Balance needed for full contact area when braking - allowing for the squat which will with unequal length wishbones alter the camber to neg
Next is the roll into the corner where extra neg camber will give full contact for outside wheel.
Final - which for Libra I don't know - is whether the grip at the front will give arse end grip letting do so limiting front maybe good

On noise - clicking from Mk1 rear
Wear will be in a very small area of the Landrover ball joints - fixed position and very small movement
Does splitting and turning the ball a fraction stop the click?

I'd had a chat with Dave Gallop about this myself whilst we were parked next to each other in the paddock at Castle Combe last august. I'd finally got my back end somewhere near right and the confidence that was giving me to push harder was showing a little bit of understeer under some circumstances (previously it had always been wildly tail happy). Overall the balance wasn't too bad though. According to Dave there are two options to deal with that understeer, probably the best would be to leave the static camber at zero (for better braking) and to use an anti roll bar to prevent any chance of going into positive camber through roll when cornering. Fitting an ARB isn't the easiest of options for me so that's why I was thinking about going for a small amount of negative static camber and taking a small hit on braking performance (the second option). There is always a concern that would push it back into oversteer though.

On reflection I think I'll leave the front at zero for now and see whether my new extra power will allow me to correct the understeer with the throttle!

I've read that an ARB is a good idea for the Libra front, does anyone know if they are still available anywhere? I think TeamGTM may have offered a kit a one point?

A smudge of static negative is a good idea also IMO and I'll have to see how mine has been set. Front suspension is next winters project

On rear noise Pete, i'd say you'll still be riding on the same worn areas of the cup even if you rotate the BJ. For the price of them and effort it would take to turn em you might as well fit new.

I think it's Alan Gow who did/does various metal parts for the Libra - not sure if ARB is one of the parts he does though. Search his name on here and you should find contact details.

SAS

I bought alan gow front and rear arb's but i paid a little more with demon tweaks for the polyurethane bushes. You notice it's in place whilst driving but just means more adjustment is required to get want you want. Be aware though the front ARB is a little troublesome to get into place and requires removal of the front tub bolts to squeeze it past. It is worth it though

Your welcome to pop over and see mine first if you wish as i'm fairly near

Whereabouts are you Colin? Do you think the arb's had a positive effect on the handling when you fitted them?