GTM Owners Club Forum

PG1 gearchange
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Author:  Jaykart1227 [ Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

Great minds think alike :lol:

I scoured ebay last night for a PG1 with the correct bellcrank etc - I'm watching one at the moment.

Author:  bubbleless [ Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

May be easier to contact one of the mgf/tf dismantlers for a good price.
Mike stur makes one with new rose joints for £40 tf or f

Author:  sanzomat [ Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

mark h wrote:
hello Sanzomat
The modification looks too big to fit around other things in the tunnel the lowest part on mine is the ball socket on the cable end this just misses the rad pipe The cable clamp for the outer cables on the gtm part has the centres closer together to get the cables nearer the centre of the tunnel to miss the rad pipes I have a build manual with different suggested routes for services in tunnel for rod or cable change I can post a paper copy and scale drawing of my bracket if you think it would be any help pm your address if you need it

Hi Mark, Thanks for the info - really useful. As I was using the TF bellcrank and MGF cables I didn't need to extend the outers so I cut back off the extension I'd made and took the chance to lose a bit more of the metal around were the outers fix to the selector bracket - as you say, space really is at a premium. I've now got the selector installed and all of the pipes and wires are back in. I cut a rectangular hole in the tunnel top so the selector could come as high as possible - the swivel frame and cross gate crank come through into the car so need need to grind it down. The main battery cables, clutch pipe and vacuum pipe all fit in the space between the cable outer mounting and the tunnel - squash slightly going past the double U clip but then a nice fit once above it. One heater pipe heater pipe fits in the gap by the side of the of the cable outer bracket and the other I've fixed diagonally below/beside it as I cut the bracket at an angle but there wasn't room for both by the side of the bracket as you've drawn. The rad vent pipe and main loom conduit then cable tie to the heater pipes. Pretty much as your sketch basically. The main rad pipes fitted below no trouble. The only slightly messy looking bit is where the main loom conduit passes under the selector, kind of between the main rad pipes so its low enough to miss the front of the cables. Its higher than the bottom of the rad pipes though so shouldn't drag on speed bumps!

Anyway, thanks again for the info.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Author:  sanzomat [ Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

Gearchange mech mounted - inside car view:

Tunnel view before all pipes/wires put back:

New gaiter fitted to cover hole (previous round based rubber bellows wouldn't fit):

Author:  bubbleless [ Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

Nice and neat great job.

Author:  WEST [ Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

Look good, and I have learnt something, I thought the tunnel of the libra/Spyder was a fully enclosed moulding not open on the underside.


Author:  Jaykart1227 [ Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

Looks good that. Hope to start fitting mine later this month but the engine and gearbox have to come out first and up to Brown and Gammons for a quick skim, new HG etc. The Rossa also has to come out of the garage to make room - maybe going to sell it?

Have you got the engine and box back in place yet? Wondered what you thought of the gear change if you had, can only be an improvement over the rods!!

Author:  sanzomat [ Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

Engine and box are physically back in and I'm working through connecting everything up. New rad is now in too. All the pipes/wires down the tunnel are in place, driveshafts and exhaust back on. Had a bit of fun bodging up a bracket for the engine steady bar but I think what I've done should work! Just the wiring to adapt now as there isn't a blue connector on the car loom to plug the blue one from the engine loom into. I need to identify all the wires that would have used the blue plug and find where to join them to!

I've tried the gearchange with the car/engine stationary and everything seems to engage nicely. The gear lever throw is much shorter and is a lot more precise. I didn't add any additional springing but there is enough feel from the gearbox springing to feel when you are in the 3rd-4th plane.

My lever is extended by about 50mm with a steel extender and the knob itself is solid ali so there is a bit of weight/momentum to the change.

I bent the MGF lever back a touch as when extended it would hit the radio in 1/3/5. I've not put the seats back in yet so I have niggling worry that I might have bent it too far and it might hit the drivers seat when in reverse but I think it will be okay!

Author:  Jaykart1227 [ Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

Sounds like you've made some great progress lately! Soon be back on the road.

Great to hear that the mods have improved the gearchange :D :D

Author:  sanzomat [ Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

sanzomat wrote:
I bent the MGF lever back a touch as when extended it would hit the radio in 1/3/5. I've not put the seats back in yet so I have niggling worry that I might have bent it too far and it might hit the drivers seat when in reverse but I think it will be okay!

An update, the amount I bent the MGF lever back by is actually spot on. Anyone doing something similar take at a look at my earlier pic. If you mount the MGF selector bracket such that the lever comes through the tunnel centered on the original hole it will definitely need bending back. My bend seems just right now the seat is back in.

Tip - the steel counter weight that you cut off the bottom of the MGF lever makes a great radius to bend the lever around! Make sure you do it before you fit it in the tunnel though as it would be a bitch to bend whilst installed and I can't imagine having to take it back out once you've got it in.

Author:  librakv6 [ Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

Good on yer, sounds like a lot of work to me, I know when I installed my gear change I spent a lot (and I mean a lot) of time heating my rods up and adjusting them perfectly I changed all the plastic bushes for fabricated brass items and made my own gear stick robbed from an old Sealion Crane. I didn't follow most Gtm builders who cut their levers short which gives you a stiff feel and finds you reaching forward on the floor every time you change gear, I made the stick 360mm long and I find the gear shift precise and quick and easy to hand next to the steering wheel and have had no rattles from them whatsoever, I have looked into and improved a lot on this kit which is why it probably took me 15 years to complete it :lol: :lol: :lol:

Author:  Jimbob [ Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

This seems to be a great mod- I would certainly like to be rid of the rod gearing.

Please correct me if I’m wrong but in summary of the above the SSK with TF Bell crank assembly and MGF cables seem to do the job? Page 1 photos in this thread are showing, but unfortunately Sanzomat’s photos on Pages 2&3 aren’t. If you’ve got them Sanz or any of the tunnel and bell crank region that would be hugely appreciated!

Here is the current set up I’ve got at the gearbox end, with the standard rod gear selector set up up front.

BF356869-B9E0-40DA-A943-8A5CBFAEDF89.jpeg [ 129.02 KiB | Viewed 747 times ]
337E7D59-0F70-4B61-8ECB-DB51BBAE352C.jpeg [ 186.62 KiB | Viewed 747 times ]

Author:  sanzomat [ Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

Okay - differences between gearbox end cable arrangement on MGF and MG TF PG1 gearboxes:
This is an MGF arrangement:
F Bellcrank.jpg
F Bellcrank.jpg [ 279.15 KiB | Viewed 739 times ]

This is a MG TF arrangement:
TF Bellcrank.jpg
TF Bellcrank.jpg [ 210.51 KiB | Viewed 739 times ]

This screenshot from Rimmer Bros shows the two different long cable mounting brackets:
Cable brackets.jpg
Cable brackets.jpg [ 123.33 KiB | Viewed 739 times ]

You will see that the F bellcrank forward/backward arm extends rearwards but the TF on extends forwards. As such they need different mounting brackets for the cable outer. I think all PG1 gearbox casings have the tapped threads for both types but worth checking. Both F and TF use the same cable outer mounting for the shorter cable that pulls up/down. The two versions of the Mike Satur bellcranks are basically similar but use rose joints instead of the Rover ball/sockets. I assume they use the same cable outer mounting brackets.
If you currently have rods you may not have any cable outer mounting brackets (can't see them in your pic) so you'd have to get the appropriate ones.
It seems that the GTM has a greater distance between the gearchange location and the gearbox as if using MGF cables with an MGF bellcrank the long cable isn't long enough to reach by about 60mm. I found by chance that the TF cables are shorter due to the forward facing bellcrank however if you use the TF bellcrank with the F long cable it is long enough (in fact about 25mm too long but you can take up the extra length with some wiggles).

I've not used any Mike Satur components, I simply used a MGF front selector and cables and took the angle grinder to the selector bracket to cut off lots of metal that isn't really needed and then fitted it inside the tunnel. As it is lower than in a F/TF the gear lever needs an extender but my GTM had one anyway. You'll also need to bend back the lever or it will hit the radio in 1st/3rd/5th. I guess you could just mount it further back but you'd then have two holes in the tunnel top (would alter the cable length too). If you use the complete Mike Satur kit you'll still need to hack about the selector frame as it is based on the F/TF one and intended to be mounted on the top of the tunnel. That is of course possible but you'd need to route the cables into the car.
Here is my modified MGF selector in the tunnel:
gearchange tunnel.jpg
gearchange tunnel.jpg [ 219.01 KiB | Viewed 739 times ]

and from above, note bend:
gearchange inside.jpg
gearchange inside.jpg [ 442.88 KiB | Viewed 739 times ]

New gaiter, extended shaft and knob in place:
Gear Gaiter.jpg
Gear Gaiter.jpg [ 314.72 KiB | Viewed 739 times ]

Author:  Jimbob [ Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PG1 gearchange

That’s a brilliant post, thanks. Will investigate the generic bell housing cable mounts on my gearbox. That’s good to get to grips with the issues about the selector as well. I see there’s another post using an Elise set up by Tim Rowe (elise-gear-selector-conversion-t3165-15.html) but again it seems to be quite the DIY effort due to the tunnel constraints. Would far rather experiment with MG parts: Good to see it can be done. Cheers, Jim.

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