GTM Owners Club Forum
http://www.gtmdrivers.com/forum/

Fiesta Engined Coupe
http://www.gtmdrivers.com/forum/fiesta-engined-coupe-t3476.html		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  derek hambly [ Sat May 14, 2016 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Fiesta Engined Coupe
Hi All,
During the course of my Heerey rebuild I have been amazed at the the cost of "Classic" Mini bits, so much so that I thought it would be an idea to try and use some other donor car.
I already had a Ford Fiesta Zetec 1.4 and thought that this would do.
From the collection of stuff that I bought from Steve we have fabricated a second steel floorpan, but left off the rear frame and the front tower mounts.
I have now fabricated a front space frame with room inside for a petrol tank and a rear frame to take the engine.
For the rear frame I have used bigger box (40x40) as the engine gets in the way of the diagonals.
One problem with Fiesta engine is that the plastic inlet manifold will not fit, and so I am planning to use a CBR600 throttle body bought from GTM Driver.
I had hoped that the 15"x6" Fiesta wheels would fit under unmodified bodywork, as in the pictures, but suspension movement is required! 14" Fiesta wheels are in fact bigger overall as the tyres are higher profile.
Maybe KA wheels would be O.K.
For this one I am going to have to cut the arches and fit extensions.
Currently this is a development project only.

Derek Hambly

Attachments:
DSCN0766.JPG
DSCN0766.JPG [ 463.34 KiB | Viewed 30020 times ]
File comment: Fabricated Uprights just visible
DSCN0764.JPG
DSCN0764.JPG [ 458.37 KiB | Viewed 30020 times ]
File comment: Front Spaceframe
DSCN0762.JPG
DSCN0762.JPG [ 445.93 KiB | Viewed 30020 times ]
DSCN0758.JPG
DSCN0758.JPG [ 454.71 KiB | Viewed 30020 times ]
File comment: Rear body made romovable
DSCN0757.JPG
DSCN0757.JPG [ 463.72 KiB | Viewed 30020 times ]
DSCN0755.JPG
DSCN0755.JPG [ 461.62 KiB | Viewed 30020 times ]
File comment: Original Cox style seats
DSCN0751.JPG
DSCN0751.JPG [ 453.29 KiB | Viewed 30020 times ]
DSCN0747.JPG
DSCN0747.JPG [ 463.27 KiB | Viewed 30020 times ]
File comment: On trailer after trip to Stoneleigh
DSCN0746.JPG
DSCN0746.JPG [ 454.37 KiB | Viewed 30020 times ]
Author:  roger [ Sat May 14, 2016 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
Looks good Derek

Do you plan to re-launch with the Fiesta as the new donor?

I had a quick look at Stoneleigh and liked what you had done with the suspension etc.

How big are the brakes? Could you fit a 13" wheel over them?
Author:  derek hambly [ Sun May 15, 2016 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
Roger,
Thanks for the positive comment.
On the front the brakes are straight of the Fiesta and and a 13" wheel will fit over them, but the fabricated upright was designed for the fiesta wheels and the balance weights inside a 13" wheel just catch on the Cortina lower swivel joint.
I know as I tried a 13" wheel from my Radical when the 15" wheels were too close to the footwells on the first assembly. I then had to widen the front spaceframe which then messed up the original idea to not have to add wheel arch extensions.
At the moment I have enough information and bits to be able to supply Mini based kits, but have yet to get to grip with the SVA rules and requirements.
Using the Fiesta as a donor requires a lot of bespoke components:- subframes, suspension uprights, coil-over dampers etc.
So the plan is to build the car to see if it will work and then see if there is any interest.
Meanwhile spares are available.
I have attached a drawing just to show that we are trying to do the job properly!

Derek

Attachments:
Front Section.pdf [43.44 KiB]
Downloaded 799 times
Author:  grizzler73 [ Sun May 15, 2016 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
Nice idea to use the Fiesta running gear, I would think that any change from Mini components is a exercise in packaging as there is limited room in the original design!
I do like your front end layout, very neat. Following on from that I will try to give you ring in the week to discuss a Heerey chassis, I plan to start building late this year, if everything goes to plan!
Author:  Steve Shield [ Mon May 16, 2016 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
Hi Derek,

Great progress and fantastic work as usual.

I must admit I was all for utilising a set of modern mechanicals in the car and for me Ford would be the obvious choice but I'm a little concerned that when you've priced up all the unique parts -- wishbones, uprights, drive shaft mods plus engine mods -- its going to be as expensive or possibly more than a Mini based car. Could you try to use more of the donor? eg the macpherson struts at the back a la Lancia Stratos. Also as you're probably going to have to develop a new bonnet moulding to re-position the lights for IVA maybe ease the track out a little under flared arches which would improve the back lock situation and maybe allow standard drive shafts.

Just my 2 penneth.

Steve
Author:  yazza54 [ Wed May 18, 2016 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
Nice, some fresh thinking

My mrs had a 1.4 zetec fiesta and it was a sweet little motor, it should go fairly well in a light car

The wheels definitely look too big!
Author:  derek hambly [ Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
Steve,
Decided to follow your advice, sort of, and not bother to shorten Fiesta Drive shafts and just widen the wheel arches.
I did spend a bit of time trying to get the Macpherson struts to fit but they are in fact very tall.
On the back made new wider wish bones.
On the front had to make a whole new wider space frame, which can now use a standard Fiesta steering rack.
Does anyone know if it is alright to use this rack with the hydraulics disconnected?
Also on the front decided to lower the small splitter and make the radiator opening deeper.
Attached several pictures of the car at Castle Combe.

Attachments:
DSCN0775.JPG
DSCN0775.JPG [ 466.02 KiB | Viewed 29584 times ]
DSCN0776.JPG
DSCN0776.JPG [ 455.96 KiB | Viewed 29584 times ]
DSCN0774.JPG
DSCN0774.JPG [ 450.49 KiB | Viewed 29584 times ]
Author:  sanzomat [ Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
I had a nose around your car at Combe - coming together nicely.
Author:  Steve Shield [ Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
Derek,

That certainly has more presence -- the front arches look nicely integrated but I'm no so sure about the back.

Re the steering rack I'm not sure how the hydraulic system works but I think you'll need some oil in there some how -- what about a rack from something that has electric PAS with a motor on the column -- dare I say Corsa?

Steve
Author:  kano nordie [ Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
Its a long time since I was involved in power steering systems, the ones we made for Jag, Rover, Triumph etc had a torsion bar that deflected according to load in the pinion, the more the load the more it twisted and opened the valve ports, if similar I would think you could ignore it, the hydraulic cylinder would be better if you removed the piston and gland seals, or at least its seals, as this would have some drag/sticktion especially if run dry.
John
Author:  turbocox [ Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
Have you measured the mk2 escort rack?
There not that expensive and will be available forever.
Author:  grizzler73 [ Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
Nice solution Derek, Though I agree with Steve as far as the rear arches are concerned.
Is there a engine that has a narrower track? I know the 750MC boys use a Fiat "FIRE" set up in the rear.
The Racekits car has a 54" track for instance.
http://www.racekits.co.uk/index.htm
Author:  Steve Shield [ Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
A bit off topic but that Falcon looks stunning -- I didn't realise that Formula 750 had moved on from live rear axles. The book 750 Racer by Herbert and Harvey is a good read for the technically minded although apparently now out of date.

Back on topic I think its going to be very difficult to find a single donor solution in this day and age -- Turbocox's suggestion of an Escort rack looks to be worth investigation. I think I'd still look at using the Macphersons at the back as you probably wouldn't need all the travel the Fiesta has -- probably something like 170mm versus 130mm for the Mini (approx figures) -- someone like Gaz could probably build a shorter damper.

Steve
Author:  West [ Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
You will struggle to get struts to work under the body as they are tall. I know of some that have been done but I am sure the travel is going to be rather limited or the ride height high. Single donor is going to be difficult unless you make the car wider and do custom suspension to get around the strut issue or re profile the body work, pretty much what has happened so far.

Rack wise I am sure the fiesta one will work without power steering pump but the fluid may be required to lube the rack. Reason behind this is if the power steering fails you must still be able to control the car from a fail safe point.

Or

How about Mini based, all the bits are available, but stick the zetec in and get custom shafts and pos get clever with a custom top arm on the rear and coil over suspension. There are some big cvs available that fit the mini upright sold by Allspeed for their Vauxhall/Honda conversions, Another way of approaching it.

Or

Custom everything! Shafts and suspension.

I am sure i could think of more options too.

Good to see some ideas being tried for the Coupe project.

Neil
Author:  Steve Shield [ Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiesta Engined Coupe
Some interesting thoughts West. I think that the question of a donor car is a major dilemma for Derek as he develops the Coupe. The problem is the size of current cars -- the track width of the last 13" wheel Mini was 124cm whilst nearly all current sub-B cars start around 140cm and most have 14"+ wheels. The nearest match is the original Smart car at 128cm but that has 15" wheels and a relatively humble powertrain. Interestingly Dudley Spearman did mention the Smart car as a possibility when I last spoke with him.
As an alternative a unique "Allspeed type" frame wouldn't be too difficult to build but I suspect there'd have to be some serious CAE stress analysis to prove it was up to the job. Plus as you mention unique drivehsafts and gearshift mechanism - the list is endless.
This is the reason why when I owned the project I only ever intended to supply spare parts -- re-developing the car is a major task. good luck to Derek in his endeavours.

Regarding steering racks with PAS there is always a mechanical connection between the wheel and rack -- the hydraulics only provide assistance. The issue is whether they also provide the lubrication to the rack -- its no problem running for short periods with no hydraulics but I don't think its a long term solution.

Perhaps we should all get together in a motorway services (a la Staniforth/Gould) and brainstorm this out.

Steve
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/