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Fuel Filler Pipework to Tank 
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Location: Sheffield
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Post Fuel Filler Pipework to Tank
Ever since I installed the evap system (its always smelled a bit in this area anyways) i've had a petrol smell in the cabin when left parked or driving with window open. If driving windows shut and blower on like normal, there is no smell however. The smell when it does happen is worse now with E10 I think.

I've decided to have a go at curing it and wonder what other folks have done in their cars?

My current setup is pretty much as per the manual;
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Fuel neck (1).JPG
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Built pretty much as the manual said & based on the limited knowledge we had back then (2000).
Aero 400 cap - short hose joiner - Metro (IIRC) pipe - metro bellows joiner - more metro pipe - metro bellow joiner - tank neck. Off the first metro pipe is the large hose to tank vent with a smaller hose going up the pillar for a loop and then originally out under the car open to atmo, but now goes to evap canister.
The larger vent hose is actually marked "heater hose" and came with the kit IIRC - maybe not ideal for fuel! The rest are/were OE fuel system hoses/parts.

Here is my thought for revising it, eliminating as many hose to pipe joins as possible and using proper wire reinforced* unleaded-proof hose.
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Fuel neck v2.jpg
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*needed to stop kinking in the sharp bends but does however cause issue of being less flexible.

I understand JB weld to be fuel-proof and this was my original idea though further pondering made me wonder if such a part would make removal of fuel tank hard/impossible in future. The part would have to go through the tub and then turn to face upwards with enough length to allow hose to fit securely. Hence my idea using orings and a clamp thereby allowing it to be removable. This may all turn out to be not needed if i can just get the hose to shove on as is.

It's this (likely structural) section of the tub that means the hose cant' fit on the tank outlet at a 'nice' angle.
Attachment:
Fuel neck (4).JPG
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Why install evap system? Well i thought it might help with the smell (no!) and also it extinguished the MIL so that I can now have the MIL LED connected again as a usable problem waring indicator. Also - polar bears etc.

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2000 GTM Libra 1.8VVC 145BHP


Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:55 pm
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Location: Derbyshire
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Post Re: Fuel Filler Pipework to Tank
mine has half the joints yours has my kit was supplied with a stainless steel pipe that looks like made from exhaust bends welder together there is not a metro flexible section halfway along The 16mm tank vent is welded to it with the 8mm vent pipe is welded part way along it so both 16mm and the 8mm pipe connect directly to main body of the filler pipe there is about 50mm of rubber hose at each end


Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:37 pm
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Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:27 am
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Location: Sheffield
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Post Re: Fuel Filler Pipework to Tank
Metal tank neck insert didn't work out, so i've simplified the design, which does mean having two more joins. However both the hoses are Gates filler hoses intended for petrol and all the metal pipes have beaded ends - some done on my zero cost DIY beading tool.

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Fuel neck v3.jpg
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Tool made from old dremel stand part and m12 bolts with peak/valley rollers made on lathe.
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Beading tool (1).JPG
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Beading tool (2).JPG
Beading tool (2).JPG [ 192.02 KiB | Viewed 2781 times ]

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2000 GTM Libra 1.8VVC 145BHP


Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:40 pm
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Location: In the workshop
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Post Re: Fuel Filler Pipework to Tank
Liking the bead tool, is one of the bolts concentric so you can start the bead/get the pipe off? Or is it assemble off the holder and slide into position to start?

One thought on the smell, the smaller hose that is used for vent/cannister, is that fuel safe?

When I was running my fuel lines in the Coupe feed and return for the Honda install, even though the braided fuel hose available from good ridge etc was rated for fuel it is slightly permeable to the fuel vapour i,e lets vapours through. This is why my fuel lines are ptfe.

Worth checking the spec of hose is non permeable if its inside the the car some silicone hoses have an additional layer inside to stop this.

Neil

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Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:19 pm
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Post Re: Fuel Filler Pipework to Tank
It's a bit of a faff as you have to assemble the bolts n tube off the block, insert bolts a bit then squeeze them together to start the bead and then hammer the bolts home with tube between em. Then do up the nuts etc.
For a one off it did the job but would have been a better usable tool if each bolt was in a separate block (hinged together?) and then you squeezed the blocks together to start the bead.

The small hose is "petrol hose BSAU 108 2/c4/l4" (that came from GTM) same as used on the fuel rail etc. Sniffing the hoses in place didn't really reveal anything but once apart the two bellows joiners which are ex Rover100 do still smell a bit of petrol on the outside even after being off the car a few days.
FYI The big hoses are Gates 24711 & 24716 from car builder solutions.

At the moment the big hoses are just push fitted together on the car (no clamps) with a bung in the open end and the 'normal' fuel smell when the car is sat is not apparent - so that's an improvement.
The filler port section is off to the welders, so once that is back i can assemble it all and test to see if it's really made a difference.

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2000 GTM Libra 1.8VVC 145BHP


Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:00 pm
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Post Re: Fuel Filler Pipework to Tank
Job completed, much neater and with # hose to pipe joints reduced from eleven(!) down to six.

Couple mistakes made, the small vent hose is 1/4" not 8mm as i thought (due to only measuring the copper pipe and not actually looking what it says on the hose) so getting it on to the spigot i made to 8mm with a 9.5mm bead was a 'mare. Also the small spigot is too close to the wall so the hose has to make a sharp 90° upwards, it s tiny bit kinked but still allows air to flow. The vents block could have done with being further away from the funnel.

Access to the bottom bolts fixing funnel to car was a 'mare also.

On the upside there is no fuel smell in the car as was before. Real test will be if it stays that way once driven.

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fuel filler v2 (2).JPG
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Attachment:
fuel filler v2 (3).JPG
fuel filler v2 (3).JPG [ 207.85 KiB | Viewed 2613 times ]

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2000 GTM Libra 1.8VVC 145BHP


Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:22 pm
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Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:27 am
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Location: Sheffield
GTM: Libra
Post Re: Fuel Filler Pipework to Tank
First drive with window open and fuel smell has been pretty much reduced to zero. No smell driving with window shut as before. No smell after being driven and left standing.

When opening filler cap i get a spurt of air/vapour coming out indicating the tank/hoses etc are under positive pressure. Not sure if this is correct/desirable or not or?? Better than it being under vacuum i guess? Perhaps it's so vapour is being forced into the emission canister for it to be captured.

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2000 GTM Libra 1.8VVC 145BHP


Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:45 pm
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