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clutch has broken... 
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Post clutch has broken...
ok, so i was driving along n as i went to go into 4th it would n't go in...after about 3 seconds of pulling it into place it crunched into 4th...but for the past few days i have been having this issue and its getting worse, i have now stopped driving the car, but i can confirm its the clutch...but i have no idea why its happening...

i have added fluid to the doo da resivior thing and i have no idea where the cylinder is to try there...but i chanced my luck n phoned the RAC today n told them i was broken down at home (woops) n the guy set into about it n told me i had a leak somewhere but he cant find where...any idea? and whats this little 3" hose he said it could be? its located in the back...and said that he cant bleed the system as the bolts to tight...what was he on about?

as he didnt show me Nik nak lol

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Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:44 pm
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
If the resevoir was significantly low you may have a leak, possibly a seal gone in the master (under bonet with the resevoir) or slave cylinder (looking from the back at the engine it's on the right lower side connected to an arm on the gearbox).

You need to try to bleed the slave cylinder. RAC man may have meant the the bleed nipple is corroded in and he was frightned of breaking it off. If this happens you put on a new slave cylinder - about £20 - the problem may be the seal in the slave anyway so that wouldn't be too bad a thing.

I'm sure your local garage could help.

Regards

Allen


Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:56 pm
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
The master cylinder is the one on the top of the pedal. It has the resevoir that you've presumably filled. If this leaks you'll generally find the fluid dripping off the bottom of the clutch pedal.

There's a line running from that to the rear of the car where the engine and therefore the clutch is. That'll be a solid one (copper). Check it as far as you can see it - it'll disappear into the tunnel more than likely. It should end up somewhere on the rer framework (spaceframe or subframe). From there you need a flexible bit as the engine can move in relation to the body/frame on it's rubber mountings. This will be a hose and most likely rubber which could have split or worn through or whatever.

The slave cylinder - there are two possibilities here but they are very similar. On the drivers side of the engine you can see the equivalent of the bell-housing. The slave cylinder is fastened to the outside of that towards the top and the rear. It pushes an arm which pivots in the end of the housing and operates the clutch plunger. It has a rubber dust cover on the end. If the seals in the cylinder are leaking the fluid will end up behind this cover - you can peel it back and if fluid leaks out then the seals are duff. There is a bleed nipple on it that you attach a bleed kit of some sort to get air out of the system.

Image

OK this is my Mini but you can see the system. The clutch master is the one furthest from you. You can see the copper pipe coming from the top of it to the bracket on the bulkhead (this is where a GTM will differ as one's at the front of the car and one's at the rear). From there you can see the flexible pipe (silver because it's a stainless braided one - you can see the bag on the floor). It fastens to the slave cylinder with a Banjo bolt on the far side. The slave cylinder shown is the later type and is fastened to that silver plate and points down towards the road-wheel. The bleed nipple is on the top of the slave cylinder and points pretty much horizontally towards the outside of the engine-bay. You can't see where it connects to the lever as that's behind the radiator brace. The earlier type would be more horizontal and connects to a longer lever but is essentially the same.

Nothing complicated or expensive in there when you get down to it. Let us know how you get on. You're description of the fault does sugest a hydraulic problem of some sort.

Iain


Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:59 pm
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
ok, best i can do here
Image

RIGHT UP to the right there u can see (very slightly) a red line round a bolt/nut

thats the thing he couldnt move so soaked it in WD40...what is it...

there is a yellow line somewhere following a hose...this is the hose where he thinks the leak is coming from...

does the bolt need to be removed before i can get that hose off??


HTH
BTW HE being the RAC man LOL

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Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:14 pm
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
OK, your picture makes it clearer - the red circled bolt is one of the two mounting bolts for the slave cylinder.

I'm not impressed that the RAC man, having diagnosed a leak in the flexible pipe, felt the slave had to be removed - unless the bleed nipple on the slave is not mounted uppermost, sorry, I expect that's confused you.

Seems to me that you undo the metal pipe that attaches to the slave and undo the other end of the flexible, fit a new flexible to the metal pipe and, as they say, assembly is the reverse of dissasembly :mrgreen:

Then you have to bleed the system, which would be easier with someone to assist you.


Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:37 pm
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
OK - looks a little odd but here goes. The red circle is indeed circling one of the bolts that holds the slave cylinder on. The other can be seen vertically below it - the green wire almost passes in front of part of it. They only need to be removed if the slave cylinder is coming off. To the right of an imaginary line between the two is the bleed nipple - it's a more rusty shade and is pointing almost directly at the orange tie-wrap against the bodywork. That should be what the RAC man was trying to undo.

The yellow lines do seem to outline the hose but normally that hose would connect directly to the slave cylinder. In your case it appears that there's a rigid line either side of it. The hose might not be a Mini part as it would be difficult to connect rigid lines to each end of the standard Mini hose. I'd have to see a picture of each end and just how the lines connect. I do wonder though - if it's leaking, why doesn't it appear to be wet with fluid around it?

Iain


Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:13 pm
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
Just looked again at your photo - what's the circular lump. Does the flexible hose actually go into it and the rigid metal pipe come out of It? I wonder what it is.


Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:48 pm
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
If it's what I think someone tried to tell me it had the effect of being a 'shock absorber'

Just who tramps on the clutch that hard I'm not sure

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Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:54 pm
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
I always understood that the rubber hose was so that there was a flexible connection between slave and master cylinder, so that the there can be movement in the engine without the pipe breaking.

If the clutch is only dragging, rather than not working at all, could it be that the pipe is expanding when you press the pedal? I've know of some pipes in other applications expand if the braiding is damaged.

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Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:37 pm
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
The round "thing" is indeed a kind of shock absorber, very similar in operation to the nitrogen filled devices used in some diggers etc. Personally i think the whole verto set-up is not very good particularly for any serious use, pre-verto clutches seem to last longer, are easier to upgrade and there are more choice's to upgrade the flywheel. From the symptons described it sounds like there's air in the system, if the clutch is pumped very rapidly do you get a "pedal" for a few seconds :?:

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Last edited by the other Tim on Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:04 pm
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
Actually the bracket under the slave cylinder looks rusty so have a closer look here 1st.

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Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:30 am
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
sorted...i think


Bled the system and what not, em, but still having to "pump" the clutch a few times before being able to selcet gears. I think tis just pressure is being lost, so going to find out if it is that pipe, and get it replaced...

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Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:54 am
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
It might be a leaking cylinder, either the master or the or the slave. I would that thought that if you had a split in the pipe that you wouldn't have any pressure. Either that, or you need to rebleed the system. If there is still some air in the system, it would cause a similar problem.

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Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:38 pm
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
ah hm,...well i didnt bleed it to great if i am honest...kind of rushed it...will see how i feel on tue, but i am going up to the guy Martin at Ayrshire mini & Metro cENTER THIS week to let him have a gander

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Dont you Think Its Amazing that Buildings Cant Move But Can Sit Perfectly Still, Yet Humans Can Move And Cant Sit Perfectly Still??
Scottishmini.co.uk


Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:17 am
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Post Re: clutch has broken...
Bert try to remove the rubber where the push rod meets the slave cylider, if it has one, and see if there is any fluid behind it , cos in my experience , mostly limited to minis, the slave seal will usually leak before the master.


Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:32 pm
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