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Rear wheels 
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Post Re: Rear wheels
kano nordie wrote:
Any questions you can come around when I do mine :roll:
John


That's a bargain for Harold, go fishing for info and get offered a free holiday - <dons flak jacket while running for cover>

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Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:33 pm
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Post Re: Rear wheels
Yoda74 wrote:
Thanks guys, that's good information.
One question, how do you know if your front wheels are exactly straight forward ( in the middle position)??
@john: when I'm in the neighbourhood I Will come over and have a look :wink:


The front wheels also have toe in, so you can use the same measuring system on the rim edges to make sure they are both set the same amount from the fishing line, you can also measure from the fishing line to the sills to see if the subframes front and rear are exactly positioned, but do not be surprised to find errors :lol:
John


Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:42 pm
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Post Re: Rear wheels
What if one front wheel has a lot of toe-in and the other one just a bit?
You steer until both difference are about the same and start from that?
Or is that a bad way to begin?


Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:02 pm
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Post Re: Rear wheels
As soon as the car move the front wheel toe in will balance itself, what you don't want is a lot of steering lock on one side and a little lock on the other side, try to set the same number of turns for full lock for both left and right.
Let me know when you plan to come I'll put the sharia beer in the fridge, no need of the flack jacket, you could just as easily have a terrorist attack in any major European city, wrong place wrong time :wink:
John


Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:32 pm
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Post Re: Rear wheels
John: Because Caster is not needed at the rear, is it an option to just replace the lower arms with adjustable ones and leave the tie-rods as they are, unajustable?
Just make toe-in and camber right and leave caster unatended?

Cheers


Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:59 pm
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Post Re: Rear wheels
Ho Harold,
That is correct you don't need caster angle at the rear, but if you have it it has no effect :wink:
John


Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:48 pm
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Post Re: Rear wheels
Great, that's what I tought, thanks.

Harold


Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:20 am
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Post Re: Rear wheels
Hi guys,

I Already put this question in the "Brakes, Suspension & Steering" part but because I don't get any replies over there, and I am not very patient, I also put it over here in the Cox/GTM part.

I have fitted HiLo's, adjustable tie bars and adjustable bottom arms to the front of my Coupé.
I'm trying to get it alligned now.
Hight is ok now.
I'm struggling with camber, caster and toe-in.
After hight I adjusted the toe in. (both sides 3mm toe-in, measured from the edge of the rims, with a fishingline parallel to the sills)
After that I adjusted camber.
Then I drove around to see how it handled.
Steering to the left was easier then steering to te right?!?!
Also it was a bit nervous, as if the back is heavy and it will oversteer easily.
Maybe the Caster is far of I thought.
Should I take the difference between the two measurements in degrees when I steer 20 degrees to the left and 20 degrees to the right?
For example: left wheel, -4,25 + 2,25 = 6,5 total?
And adjust these untill right and left wheel are approximatly the same, and between 3-5 degrees?
Maybe re-adjusting the toe-in after getting the camber/caster right?

Also I adjusted the hight on the rear and I have mounted adjustable bottom arms to the rear too.
I adjusted the camber to -1,5°
I also wanted to put the toe-in to 3mm, it is way to much now.
I can adjust the thing replacing the steering arm, but 3 out of 4 lock-nuts won't move.
So I can only give it more toe-in, and can't lock it.... that's not what I want..
Even with a lot of WD-40 and power to won't loosen.

Any ideas?

Thanks guys


Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:19 am
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Post Re: Rear wheels
Hi Harold I had quite a lot of rusted seized up nuts and bolts, that what you get when things are close to 50 years old, apply heat with a welding torch usually works, be careful if you burn the car please don't blame me :lol:
John


Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:11 pm
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Post Re: Rear wheels
Thanks John, but I have no welding machine at my home...

At the other topic at the brakes, suspension and steering section, I Got the following reply from Neill.
I suggested to take the reactions at my troubles central to this topic over here.

Neill's reaction:

It takes a bit of time and chasing to get a sensible setup when you are working from a blank sheet of paper with all the adjustable parts.

My method

Set all lower arms, tie bars to the same length if you already have negative camber arms to copy set your adjustable arms to that length.

Set steering arms and rear toe locks to the same length side to side and something sensible.

Lower car and set ride height I suggest 10-20mm lower on the front.

Now set toe to 0 front and back.

Now set camber and castor, they effect each other as you make adjustment, take notes of how many turns you add/remove and do the same to the other side to get the car very close to where you want it. Your method of adding the values sounds sensible.

Once you are close to your setting for camber and castor check the other side is close too.

Now set the toe to the desired setting.

Keep an eye on ride height as you jack up and down and bounce the car to settle between changes. Take regular measurements.

Then go back and check camber and castor and now start to find the exact settings you want camber, castor then toe.

Then do the rear of the car. What I did, after finding the tie bar length needed for the front I set the rear to the same length. Then repeat the above.

Once the car is set, go for a steady short drive to settle the car, then adjust the ride height back to where it should be, I always find my car needs to settle in ride height after being jacked up and down changing settings.

If you have not corner weighted the car keep the Hilos the same height length side to side.

Neil


Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:04 pm
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Post Re: Rear wheels
Thanks Neill.

The hight is aproximatly right now, 150mm at rear, 125mm at front.

Sundaymorning I adjusted camber and castor in front.
They now are:

Left front wheel:
camber -1,5 degrees,
Caster when steering 20 degrees to the left: +2,5 degrees
Caster when steering 20 degrees to the right -0,75 degrees.
Added that is a Caster of 3,25 degrees.

Right front wheel:
camber -1,5 degrees,
Caster when steering 20 degrees to the left: - 0,5 degrees
Caster when steering 20 degrees to the right +2,75 degrees.
Added that is a Caster of 3,25 degrees.

I Will have to recheck the toe-in of the front wheels as I have corrected them before I adjusted the Caster and camber, it might be wrong now.
Toe-in 3mm measured from Edge of rims should be allright?

As I wrote before, I have to adjust the toe-in at the rear too, but the lock- nuts are rusted onto the adjusting rods.
Have to make them come loose.

I have to take it for a drive , havent done that since the last adjustments last sunday.
Probably next saturday, if the weather is allright.

I made most adjustments with wheels on the ground ( not the Hilo adjustments, that seems hard to do)
I know I have to let the suspension settle after adjustments and after jacking up.
Driving it around for a short while seems to make it settle
Hight seems to change a bit after driving the green monster around.

What I noticed and found weird was that during the drive after first adjustments, the steering to te left was easier then the steering to te right. To the right was getting increasingly harder the more I steered. (Greater angle)
I Dont know if that still is so. the Caster was quite defferent left and right, iTS better now

Cheers
Harold


Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:37 pm
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Post Re: Rear wheels
with the caster being different side to side most likely was causing your odd steering. Hopefully now with it being the same side to side it will be better.

From memory I run 5 degrees castor, to be honest I have never tried another setting always stuck with it, 3mm toe in sounds sensible if you mean total, i.e 1.5 mm on each wheel on a 13 inch rim. I have ran 1mm to 2mm toe in on the front and preffered the 2mm myself on my car.

Most important when experimenting DO NOT set the rear to toe out! As this leads to roll oversteer which is very lively.

Neil

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Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:22 pm
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Post Re: Rear wheels
Neil,

Do you mean 1-2 mm per wheel, measured from back to front of the rim? (Not tire)

The rear is definitely not toe-out now, more like 10mm toe in... :-)
I have to found a way to loosen the locknuts before I can adjust the rear-wheel toe-in.

Cheers Harold


Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:23 am
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Post Re: Rear wheels
Hi Harold, between 1-2mm each side at the front will be OK, aim for a total 3mm, if you don't have access to gas welding torch try a butane/propane torch (not too costly) it should get a rusted nut or bolt hot enough to move it
John


Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:50 am
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Post Re: Rear wheels
Hi John,

Something like this?
http://www.123solderen.nl/contents/nl/d ... ander.html
That's not too expensive indeed.

Will the nut get stuck again when it cools off?


Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:21 pm
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