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Stupid questions 2A 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:27 pm
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Location: Lincoln, UK.
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Post Stupid questions 2A
Hello again Everyone.

So, hunting down some leakage into the cabin. I have a small lake going on which considering the weather recently isn't very surprising. If it were one of my Mini's I'd remove the floor plug and let the water out !!

Does anyone know where to get some replacement door seals from ?? I guess Rimmers don't have any R100/Metro door seals in stock anymore.

Has anyone removed the heater core/air distribution box ?? I can see a place where a couple of bolts/screws would be, but they have been covered in some goop - maybe intumescent sealant, maybe body filler - at this point I don't know.

Reason being that there are some pink drips down the air distribution unit and the water in the footwell has a pink tinge to it.

Also, in the passenger footwell there is a (not very well fitted) aluminium plate over what I guess is an access hole for some front suspension bolts. I guess this seals the cabin from the outside, so needs to be both close-fitting to the hole and sealed into the body ??

Thanks in advance.

Phil.


Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:14 pm
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
Is it coming in thru the door seal, can you say where? My doorseal is from the donor and I get no leakage in normal rain etc.

Woolies might have the correct seal? There's some NOS and used OE stuff on ebay.

A Haynes Rover metro book may be helpful with the heater bolt locations etc, it's basically fitted the same in the Libra. I have a funny feeling you can't get part of the heater unit out (inside dash) with the windscreen in place but might be wrong about that.
I think the blower unit outside and the heater unit inside just bolt together and sandwich the curved bulkhead between.

Do you have pink coolant, if so it might be a joint (inlet or outlet) on the matrix or the matrix itself corroded thru? Could just be (one of?) the hoses not secured watertight to the matrix pipes?

The holes in the vertical bulkhead in the footwells don't lead to the outside, only to the protruding box sections that are at the far front of the tub. You are correct, you access the front a frame bolts and upper shock mount via these holes.

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Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:28 pm
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
Thanks Sidewinder.

Yes the coolant is pink, I've wiped up the obvious drips so we'll see if it reappears any time soon.

I have noticed that the coolant temperature gauge sometimes climbs up to 120 then immediately drops back to 80. The car has a PRT so I wondered if that is the stat opening and a rush of cold water appearing at the temp sensor all of a sudden ??

The door seals are not in great shape so I'll see what I can get. If it's similar to Mini stuff I might have a spare door seal or two I can play with. Rimmers is literally 5 mins from my house (and they do price match if you see stuff cheaper !!) so I can pop up there and speak to them - except I can't 'cos Lincolnshire is in tier three at the moment !!

The window fit on both doors isn't that great, which from what I've read (used the search function !!) that is pretty normal for the Libra.

I've cleared out the heater drain and removed the ducks-bill from the drain-pipe, but that isn't to say water can't still get in, or indeed between the gasket between the blower body and the bulkhead.

I will be investigating the "sealant" covering the mounting bolt locations for the internal heater blending unit to see if it's just been stuck back without bolts - I can't see any reason other than trying to seal the bolts somehow.

Driving the car this morning I would have liked heated mirrors from an MGF or TF, so that's another mod on the list !!

Thanks again

Phil.


Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:42 pm
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
It will, coolant is very 'leak findy'. Just had a look in my car. If you look up in the pass footwell, above the pass side air outlet you will see the two copper pipes coming out the matrix and going up/forward thru a plastic rectangular bit and beyond that is where the hoses join on. Hard to see and impossible to get to from there. Not sure if they can be accessed from inside the dash after taking the cover off.

The coolant temp sensor is on the engine block outlet. Swings of 40° coming out there is not good - at least not for Rover K16 engines. Do you get that when driving or sat idling, when warming up or at temo?
A PRT is meant to give a more controlled stable temp.

With a properly adjust door & window mech it should be perfectly weatherproof. The main areas of concern are the wingmirror triangle top and the bit where the window goes into the door right at the back. The latter I have a small gap/hole there but have never had rain etc come in due to the angles and how the water flows etc. If you point a direct jet of water there it's another matter :-)

I have a hose fixed to the blower inlet drain that goes down and exits in the tunnel.

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Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:26 pm
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
Well Yesterday's drive didn't reveal anything spectacular. I don't think there was any leakage from the heater matrix and it didn't rain in Lincolnshire so no further water ingress so far................

I looked up under the dash and saw "the almost impossible to get at" heater hose connections. I believe on the Metro the hose connections were on the engine bay side of the bulkhead, the plastic rectangular bit is where the pipework goes through the bulkhead.

I must admit I did think that the whole point of the PRT was that it didn't open and shut quickly and thermally shock the engine when it opens. I'll keep an eye on it, the engine is supposed to have been rebuilt last year including all the "new and improved" engine bits.

I'll dig through my Mini stock and see if I can find some door seals to try. I know the Metro front window support rail has rusted and swollen up, just like they do on Minis, so the rail catches slightly on the scissor mechanism as you wind the window up and down, so that's on the list for replacement.

Phil.


Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:19 am
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
With cabin heater set to warm, how quick do you get warm air from a cold start? As you are driving about (with cabin heater on hot) does the air go 'cold' at any time - especially if sat idling? This is an indication that you have air in the system, likely stuck in the heater circuit, most likely the matrix itself. If you are getting liquid out, good chance it's sucking air in when cooling down (?).

Be a good idea to sketch out your cooling system, also where is the PRT in the circuit and what colour is it (indicates what type/set temp) assuming you can get to see the markings on it?

PRTs are meant to open thermally and via coolant flow and they are put on the hot exit side of the engine rather than the inlet.

As OE the coolant flows constantly round the heater circuit and the stat allows flow round the radiator circuit as needed due to heat (and with a PRT flow due to revs).

Here is my setup:
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My Libra cooling system.jpg
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Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:46 pm
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
Phil

If the upload has worked there should be three photos - one showing what the heater pipe connection looks like from above and the other two showing the two fixings holding the heater. My screen is out at the moment so it was a lot easier to get to these points. If you do need to disconnect your heater pipes, then undoing the two fixings first should allow you to lower the heater down and then give you far better access to the jubilee clips holding the pipes. Hope this helps.

Nigel


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Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:17 pm
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
Thanks to both Sidewinder and Bennett2001 (Nigel)

I haven't had much chance to play with the plumbing (oooo-errr !!) recently, now I've finished work for the holidays and assuming the weather plays its part I might get a chance to remove the dash cover again and see what access is like.

I have adjusted the passenger door a bit and the window no-longer contacts the B-pillar now, so must logically be better placed on the seal of the door aperture. With the repositioned door seal this should hopefully mean no leakage through the door seal, no wet carpet on the passenger side sill.

The consequence of moving the door is, of course, I now need to move the lock pin on the B-pillar, which means removing the rear hard trim and upper seatbelt mount on the passenger side.

Next up, figure out if I have a wiring problem or a failing alternator as there isn't a lot of "power" getting back to the battery.

Thanks again everyone.

Phil.


Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:54 pm
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
Hello all.

I'm still battling water leakage into the cabin - and being as it's an FG tub it fills up the footwells, well like a bathtub really !!

I've removed most of the carpet from the footwells now and removed the speakers from their frankly quite strange place in the sills.

I've cleaned and repositioned both door seals, I've added a "drain slot" into the seal near the return radius of the front edge of the door aperture, and touch wood, I don't think I have leaks from the door seals any more.

Removing the speakers allowed me to sponge up the water trapped in the sills !!

So, now I guess I move onto the pedal box seal, the heater box seal, and maybe the lower windscreen seal ??

Any thoughts appreciated.

Phil.


Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:58 pm
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
Water trapped in the sills?? There should be no way for it to get in there. Only 'access' from the outside for water is the striker pin and bottom door hinge mount - that's all i can think of.

Does it get wet stood still in rain or only (maybe worse?) when driving?

Consider the wiper and maybe washer spray mount holes as ingress points into the dash and thence to the floor.

The pedal box has a proper seal (ex Rover) that should be fitted to Libras also. I think you can still get em new.

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Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:11 pm
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
Phil mine seems to leak from the front of the door where the window guide transitions to the glass the seal cannot take up the gap and looking down from the top of the glass there is a triangular gap that lets in water
Ian


Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:58 pm
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
@ sidewinder: Yes, water trapped inside the sill structures. Enough on both sides to warrant using a sponge to mop it up after removing the very crusty speakers and carpet.

I think the water was leaking inside from the door seal (hence making the drain "slots" in the section to allow any water to drain outside rather than inside) then under the carpet and into the sills.

It doesn't seem to leak on the move, but with the lovely Lincolnshire weather and a nose-down attitude on my driveway it does seem to fill the drivers' side footwell quite easily.

I'll check out the wipers, washer jet and I've seen comments on FB about the windscreen seal - does it "just" pull out of the windscreen reveal or is it going to be glued in ?? I'd rather not have to remove the screen if possible, but I do know a windscreen fitter if necessary.

@Elansprint: Yes I understand what you mean there. I have adjusted the passenger side door so it doesn't clout the B-pillar anymore and I need to adjust both the door latch pins (once I take the trims off inside) but I guess there isn't much to be done on the "triangle of doom" at the front of the door ??

Keep smiling everyone and keep the suggestions coming.

Phil.


Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:54 pm
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
Hi Phil,
My Libra has been off the road for more years than I care to mention but if I remember correctly I used to get quite a lot of water ingress in the "triangle of doom" area if I parked nose down but parking nose up pretty much cured the problem. Water ingress round door seals is apparently common on Lotus Elans as well, an Elan owner once told me that a dab of vaseline can cure many a leaky door seal.
Keep up the good work. Reading about your (and others) progress inches me ever closer to getting into the garage to get mine back on the road
Cheers, Neil


Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:25 am
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
Neil mine is parked up hill still leaks my elan does not leak at all garage is watertight
Ian


Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:11 pm
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Post Re: Stupid questions 2A
Stood in rain or driven in it my car doesn't get water in the cabin at all.

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Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:35 pm
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