It is currently Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:57 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc 
Author Message
Ready for SVA

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:11 pm
Posts: 439
GTM: Libra
Post Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
Please can anyone help me with regards to conecting a MGF engine loom to a metro loom the VVC loom from the MGF has two plugs not one like the metro loom fitted to my Libra. I also want to fit it without the 5as unit what is the best way to get around this?
Thanks Matthew


Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:35 pm
Profile E-mail
Looking like a GTM

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:31 am
Posts: 196
Location: Rowley Regis, West Midlands
GTM: Spyder
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
Hi Mathew,
I think you might need to get extra wiring looms from GTM, I think it depends on the ECU you use but I think you'll need some kind of relay pack. I'm sure someone with more knowledge on this will let you know exactly whats needed :oops:
Re the 5as, you'll need something like this to pass the signal to the ECU
http://www.talonsportscars.com/metrocatalogue.php
Juls


Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:34 am
Profile E-mail
The Terrible Tims
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:23 pm
Posts: 544
Location: suffolk
GTM: Cox/Coupe
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
My son's mates put a 1.8k-series from a 2002 Elise (non vvc) into a Metro GTI and had send the ecu to Talon to get the electrics sorted. I believe that had 2 plugs on the engine loom. They used the Metro box but had to buy a flywheel (from a Rover 200 i think :? ) as the neither of the flywheels they had worked with the crank sensor and the gearbox. It's probably worth speaking to Talon, they seem very clued up. I still have the pg1 box, flywheel, slave cylinder, starter and driveshafts. Part of the cable adapter is missing, i don't know the g/box ratio code as the label has fallen off :!: If this lot is of any use to anyone i can get it to Stoneleigh in May. I'll post it in "for sale" nearer the time. Incidently the Metro went like a scalded cat :!: :!:

_________________
I'm not a complete idiot, parts of me are missing!!!!!


Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:27 pm
Profile
Ready for SVA
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:06 pm
Posts: 364
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
Matty H wrote:
Please can anyone help me with regards to conecting a MGF engine loom to a metro loom the VVC loom from the MGF has two plugs not one like the metro loom fitted to my Libra. I also want to fit it without the 5as unit what is the best way to get around this?
Thanks Matthew


Talon do a code generator that does away with the need for a 5AS.

It still needs aligning to the ECU but does the job.
http://www.talonsportscars.com/metrocatalogue.php


OOPs should have read the previous post more carefully :oops:


Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:01 pm
Profile E-mail
On the Road
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:10 pm
Posts: 765
Location: Bristol
GTM: Spyder
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
Re-awakening this thread. I'm trying to wire in the engine loom from my VVC upgrade onto the body loom that was originally a 1.4 single point injection but at some time was upgraded to a 1.6 mems 3. My VVC is a mems 2J. The main issue is that the engine loom has two main plugs, one black, one blue. The body loom just has a black female plug. It looks like the black female plug on the body loom has been altered as all bar two of the 13 ways are used but the black plug on the engine loom only has 6 ways used and four of those are for things that appear to be redundant. The wires on the engine loom blue plug mostly match the colours and positions on the body black plug but there are a few that are different. I thought I'd corrected these differences by matching colours from the engine loom and found homes for the two wires from the black engine loom that needed to connect to the body via the blue plug.

There is one wire that I cannot find a home for and I'm not sure what its for. It comes out of the bulkhead on its own behind the ecu mounting position and is taped together with the wires from the inertia switch. The wire is orange. Any ideas? On the 1.6 installation the orange changed to blue/yellow and then changed again to yellow/red just before connecting into the ECU plug but I can't see a wire of that colour on the Mems 2 version.

I tried firing her up with that wire left disconnected to see if there was just one thing that didn't work but no such luck. There are a number of issues:

1) The fuel pump relay clicks but the pump doesn't spin up so no fuel.
2) The instruments (fuel gauge and Oil pressure) both go to full deflection as soon as the key is turned.
3) Weird one - operating the hazard lights switch makes the starter solenoid rattle!

I think there may be some clues there. Any ideas?

I'd really like to know how the fuel pump is wired - i.e. the order the wires go from the body loom (seems to be a white/purple wire that is 12v when ignition on). This matches a wire at the inertia switch and also a wire at the main relay pack but what connects to what? The other wire from the inertia switch is brown/pink. It seems that brown/pink is often 12v after a relay? I'm thinking the inertia switch interrupts the fuel pump feed - which wire to which??? I tried wiring it as it appears to be on the Mems 3 but this isn't working.

The starter is turning on the key but the engine isn't firing, probably because the fuel pump isn't spinning.


Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:50 pm
Profile E-mail
Ready for SVA
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:32 pm
Posts: 344
Location: Norfolk
GTM: K3
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
hi i got this from the
Rover RAVE Workshop Manual

MGF - upto 2001 Model Year
Electrical Library

FUEL PUMP
DESCRIPTION
General

The fuel pump is an electric submersible pump located in the fuel tank and controlled by the
ECM.
OPERATION
Power supplies
Fuse 2 of the under bonnet fuse box (C0571) supplies a permanent battery feed to the inertia
switch (C0123) on a N wire. A NS wire connects the inertia switch (C0123) to the switch
contacts of the fuel pump relay (C0157) in the engine management relay module.
Fusible link 4 (C0570) in the under bonnet fuse box supplies a permanent feed to the ignition
switch (C0028) on a NP wire. When the ignition switch is in position II or III, power is supplied
from the ignition switch on a BY wire to fuse 14 (C0099) in the passenger compartment fuse
box. Fuse 14 (C0585) supplies the feed to the coil of the fuel pump relay (C0154) and to the
ECM (C0159 on MPi MEMS 1.9 and VVC MEMS 2J models, C0634 on MPi MEMS 3
models) on W wires.
General
The fuel pump relay is energised by the ECM for a few seconds after the ignition is switched
to position II and then continuously during cranking and once the engine has started. The
ECM energises the fuel pump relay by connecting an earth to the P (VVC MEMS 2J models)
or BP wire (MPi MEMS 1.9 and MEMS 3 models) between the fuel pump relay (C0154) and
the ECM (C0159 on MPi MEMS 1.9 and VVC MEMS 2J models, C0634 on MPi MEMS 3
models).
When the fuel pump relay is energised, the fuel pump (C0114) is supplied with battery power
from the switch contacts of the fuel pump relay (C0157) on a WP wire. The fuel pump
(C0114) is earthed on a B wire connected to an earth header (C0550).
In the event of an impact, the inertia switch opens and disconnects the electrical supply to
the fuel pump relay to prevent operation of the fuel pump.

hope this can help im going from the mems2 1.6 to the mems 3 1.8 vvc and there is a lot to change

regards
paul

_________________
paul
Member No 1320


Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:11 pm
Profile E-mail
On the Road
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:10 pm
Posts: 765
Location: Bristol
GTM: Spyder
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
Thanks Paul.

I've also found this:
http://www.metropower.org.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=66656 on another forum that seems to help too. I'm pretty certain reading this that I've not spliced the brown/slate wire on the relay box to a brown so although the signal to the relay seems to be getting through (the relay clicks) there may not be any power for the relay to send to the pump. I'm reasonably confident I've wired in the inertia switch correctly so it would break the power out from the relay box to the multi plug and thus off to the pump.

This thread also notes another thing to check - "The black red (Metro) wire is black white on the MGF loom and is for starter relay activation as it is earthed via the alarm ecu 5AS" - I'll check this too as I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have connected a black/red to a black/white!

Still no idea what the orange wire is for!!! Odd that it comes out of a hole in the bulkhead - making me think this one is a bodge. I'll have to take the trim off the inside of the bulkhead to see where it goes.


Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:28 pm
Profile E-mail
Part built GTM
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:26 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Chorley, Lancashire
GTM: K3
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
This may be useful for wiring the colour codes/usual uses etc please note about older cars windscreen wiper codes were green not orange.

http://www.dimebank.com/LucasColours.html

_________________
Car has a high power to weight ratio and is really quick...........


The owner isn't


Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:37 pm
Profile E-mail
On the Road
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:10 pm
Posts: 765
Location: Bristol
GTM: Spyder
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
Arrgghhhh!! I hate wiring!!!

I've sorted the fuel pump - now seems to make the right noises.

I've traced the random orange wire all the way back through the car into the dash and it ends up at the 5AS. Clearly this was run separately when the 1.4 to 1.6 conversion was done. As it changed to Yellow/red as it joined into the ecu loom on the 1.6 and I hadn't previously found something to connect to the yellow/red wire on the blue plug on the VVC engine loom this has now been used! This wire was labelled as "alarm" on the guide I found so sort of makes sense.

I've now found homes for everything that comes out of the car body loom that was previously connected to the 1.6 engine/ECU loom.

There are still odd things going on - when the immobiliser is disarmed the starter turns when the key is at position 2 or when the hazard switch is switched on!!!

Still haven't got the engine to fire but maybe just as well as the starter would keep going whilst the ignition was on.

Just a thought - I'm doing all this with the rear clam off completely so the connector that joins in the rear lights on the clam isn't connected to anything - seems mad but would that upset the other circuits?

There are still three wires from the body loom that aren't currently connected and none of them were connected when the 1.6 was in and working. These are a white/orange and a brown/black that don't go into the black plug but just terminate at bullets, and a white/grey and black/grey that are on the bottom row of the black plug but there were no wires on the bottom row of the engine loom plug on the 1.6 so these didn't do anything on that install. Any ideas what these are for?


Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:34 pm
Profile E-mail
Ready for SVA
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:32 pm
Posts: 344
Location: Norfolk
GTM: K3
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
Hi have you seen this before http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=34994

Could help

_________________
paul
Member No 1320


Last edited by catsam on Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:58 pm
Profile E-mail
Part built GTM
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:26 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Chorley, Lancashire
GTM: K3
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
Catsam I think you mean http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34994

_________________
Car has a high power to weight ratio and is really quick...........


The owner isn't


Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:59 pm
Profile E-mail
Ready for SVA
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:32 pm
Posts: 344
Location: Norfolk
GTM: K3
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
Thanks post amended should be able to get the link to work now :lol:

_________________
paul
Member No 1320


Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:20 pm
Profile E-mail
On the Road
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:10 pm
Posts: 765
Location: Bristol
GTM: Spyder
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
So, on Saturday afternoon I got to a place where I was totally confident that everything in the engine bay is wired correctly. Still not working properly - cranking as soon as the battery leads are attached!! With the engine loom disconnected from the body loom I probed the various connecters and nine of the eleven were showing about 2v below battery voltage even with the ignition key out and the immobiliser armed. Some of those pins should only come live when the ignition is on (and when the immobilser is disarmed) and the crank signal should obviously only come live when the key is in the crank position and the immobiliser disarmed. I hadn't changed any wiring at the front of the car other than wiring in the new radiator fan and that was a simple 2 wire job and even I couldn't have got that wrong. I had taken the dash off to replace the 5AS immobilser (as they are matched to the ECU so I'd got the one that came with my engine/ECU) so it was conceivable that I'd disturbed something inside the dash so today I set about finding some crossed wires. With the battery attached, the engine loom disconnected and the hazard switch switched on nothing was happening (using the weird behaviour of the hazards as clue), so I wiggled whole chunks of loom and occasionally the indicators would start flashing. Another clue! I found an area of the loom that had the biggest impact and dug deeper to find a cluster of bullet connectors (the type with the clear plastic "condoms"). Here the gentlest of wiggles would bring the indicators on so I knew I was getting close. I found that there was a direct battery 12v wire that was terminated in a male bullet with the condom slipped right back so the live end was exposed. The kind of thing that would have shorted to earth on a steel car and popped a fuse but not so with GRP. Some of the other bullet connectors also had there condoms displaced and the live end was obviously touching them and making those circuits live. Bingo! I spent a while sorting these issues out and the hazards would now work reliably. I probed the engine loom connector and all the pins were now working as they were supposed to. I plugged back in the engine loom, took a deep breath, disarmed the immobilser and turned the key - 1st click and radio came on, 2nd click and the dash lit up properly and a short whirr from the fuel pump. Turn to crank and the engine turns over and with just a short crank she fires up!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

So, I'm now a very happy bunny. Having bought the engine off ebay I had been worrying for months whether it would be a bag of spanners but, touch wood, it seems to be running fine, no smoke, no odd noises. Warmed it up gently with a few gentle revs to 2-3,000. When it was warm I gave to some decent revs and it was happy to go right up to 7,000 so the VVC must be working (as if the VVC mechs don't respond correctly the ECU limits it to 5,500). Early to say for sure but there are no early signs of head gasket leaks.

I reckon a few more hours and she'll be back on the road - Seats to go back in, steering wheel back on, wheels back on, rear clam back on, off the axle stands and then a road test!! ;D ;D ;D


Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:57 pm
Profile E-mail
Ready for SVA
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:32 pm
Posts: 344
Location: Norfolk
GTM: K3
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
nice to see you found out what was wrong :D

_________________
paul
Member No 1320


Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:17 pm
Profile E-mail
On the Road
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:10 pm
Posts: 765
Location: Bristol
GTM: Spyder
Post Re: Converting wiring from 1.4 to 1.8vvc
catsam wrote:
nice to see you found out what was wrong :D


Thanks for your help Paul. Having the wiring diagrams made a big difference - mainly to confirm I had got the engine loom wired up correctly to the body loom so I knew it had to be something else!


Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:57 pm
Profile E-mail
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forums/DivisionCore.

phpBB SEO