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CamelotR
Ready for SVA
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:22 pm Posts: 425
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 1275 grey smoke
Well, grey smoke from a 1275 is not a rare sight, but if I add up that the engine has been just recently reconditioned, and only run about 1 hour The engine: - early GT crank. - velded (was cracked between the cyl. no 2 and 3) and sleeved back to std size - new AE pistons - clutch-cover breather - new cam (SW5) and followers The sympthoms: - the engine starts on the button, and is running firm, smooth - just ok. - perfect oil pressure - when cold, no smoke - when the oil warm up, it start to smoke grey - it gets very heavy if You turn up the revs. - the exhaust gets oily - the oil have turned brown in a short time - we have some gass from the clutch breather - after about half an hour running lots of oil on the pistons, in the cylinder head, in the inlet manifold, in the exhaust. - cyl pressure 14-15 bar. What I did: - removed the breather hose - changed the fuel type - changed the oil ype (15W41, 20W50) - replaced the head (reconditioned, new) - replaced the head gasket - replaced the piston rings (AE first, now NPP) - measured the bores, looks all right And now I am at the end of my ideas... 
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| Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:33 pm |
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West
Admin, and Coupe Nutter
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:34 pm Posts: 1769 Location: In the workshop GTM: Cox/Coupe
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
Gray Smoke is usually Fuel from being over rich. Sounds like you have some high crankcase pressure too due to the smoke coming from the breathers and oil In the inlet/on pistons. Quote: the oil have turned brown in a short time Did you measure the piston to bore clearance and set the ring gaps correctly? sounds like it is breathing past the rings/pistons. The compression test however indicates the seal is pretty good. How much running in total has the engine done since rebuild. Neil
_________________ IF wile e coyote had a GTM he would have one with Nitrous too! watch out road runner! The First GTM into the 11s then the 10s, PB 10.87 @ 125.5 Mph on A048 tyres, and fully road legal at Santa Pod
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| Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:42 pm |
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gtmdriver
On the Road
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:44 am Posts: 632 Location: Chester le Street
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
Sounds bad enough to be a broken ring or two.
Definitely oil getting up into the combustion chambers and gases getting down into the crankcase.
_________________ GRP rules!
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| Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:52 pm |
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CamelotR
Ready for SVA
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:22 pm Posts: 425
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
"Did you measure the piston to bore clearance and set the ring gaps correctly?" With the AE ringset, the gaps were measured between 0.5-0.8. At second I have bought a set of Toyota rings (71mms) and adjusted it to 0.30-top ring, 0.25 2nd ring, 0.35 3rd ring. The smoke was the same. I think the compression tester is fauled by the amount of oil present on the cylinder bores/chamber. I have tried to measure the piston-bore clearance, but I have not much experience doing soo. Although I have the right equipment (micrometers etc). If You can tell me how to do it, I will. I am just gathering my strenght to take the engine out (3rd time  ).
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| Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:54 pm |
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CamelotR
Ready for SVA
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:22 pm Posts: 425
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
No broken ring for sure - I have replaced them once - the AE ringset was looking perfect.
All of the pistons are oily. Only no 1 and 4 slightly worse than no 2 and 3.
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| Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:56 pm |
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CamelotR
Ready for SVA
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:22 pm Posts: 425
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
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| Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:01 pm |
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CamelotR
Ready for SVA
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:22 pm Posts: 425
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
The engine had about 1.5 hours of running (idle, high idle (2000-3000).
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| Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:39 pm |
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West
Admin, and Coupe Nutter
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:34 pm Posts: 1769 Location: In the workshop GTM: Cox/Coupe
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
CamelotR wrote: With the AE ringset, the gaps were measured between 0.5-0.8. At second I have bought a set of Toyota rings (71mms) and adjusted it to 0.30-top ring, 0.25 2nd ring, 0.35 3rd ring.
Just so we are clear are these mesurements mm, the 0.5-0.8 of your first are very large, I run a larger bore than you 82mm on my Honda and built with heat in mind Nitrous etc and my Ring gaps are around 0.4mm from memory. A smaller bore will use smaller ring gaps. Did you hone the bores before fitting hte new rings? Can You get the right rings for the pistons, i.e not toyota as these may be the thickness to work correctly. Easiest way for you to measure the piston to wall clearance will be with the piston in the bore and trying to slide a Feeler gauge between the Bore and Piston skirt, this may be easier with the rings removed, that will give you a quick indication as I doubt you will have acces to an internal micometer/or bore gauge. If you do this will be better. Neil
_________________ IF wile e coyote had a GTM he would have one with Nitrous too! watch out road runner! The First GTM into the 11s then the 10s, PB 10.87 @ 125.5 Mph on A048 tyres, and fully road legal at Santa Pod
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| Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:14 pm |
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CamelotR
Ready for SVA
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:22 pm Posts: 425
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
Yes, sorry the measurements are in mms  . Sorry this may be obvious for me, but not for You Englishmen. The engine was sleeved bact to std size. It was bored and honed by the workshop. the Toyota rings are the same thickness as the original AE (1.5,1.5,3). But the problem was the same with the AE rings. I do have an internal bore gauge, but I do not have experiance with it. How should I use it to measure size and not ovality? Is there any way to measure bore - crankshaft angle? (should be 90 degree) Or bore paralelity?
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| Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:09 pm |
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CamelotR
Ready for SVA
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:22 pm Posts: 425
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
What happens if you put the pistons in the bore 180 degrees turned? The script on the pistons are facing towards the bulkhead... 
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| Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:25 pm |
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CamelotR
Ready for SVA
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:22 pm Posts: 425
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
Engine out, dismantled  again. I have managed to measure the pistons and the bores. At the bottom of the skirt, I have measured theese: cyl1: +0.05-0.068 cyl2: +0.07-0.085 cyl3: +0.073-0.092 cyl4: +0.055-0.07 Factory data: 0.048-0.065 No 2 and 3 is out of the measurements... maybe... 
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| Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:54 pm |
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CamelotR
Ready for SVA
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:22 pm Posts: 425
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
Attachment:
IMGP2730.JPG [ 768.56 KiB | Viewed 12509 times ]
I have found theese marks on the cylinder. Heat-seizing?
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| Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:56 am |
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gtmdriver
On the Road
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:44 am Posts: 632 Location: Chester le Street
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
Are there any corresponding marks, raised edges or anything on the piston?
By the look of those cylinder heads you are obviously burning massive amounts of oil.
If it's not coming up from the sump the only alternative is that it's coming down through the valve guides.
_________________ GRP rules!
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| Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:02 pm |
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Andy
Ready for SVA
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:22 pm Posts: 363 Location: Ireland
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
If thats the honing then whoever did it needs to be shot
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| Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:02 pm |
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gtmdriver
On the Road
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:44 am Posts: 632 Location: Chester le Street
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 Re: 1275 grey smoke
Yes. But what's causing the vertical marks after such a short running time?
_________________ GRP rules!
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| Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:44 pm |
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