Hi , has anybody fitted the 2.0 type r engine from a civic into a gtm ? If not why not ?
I bought b18c4 for a donor but now have a later type r engine, (drive by wire)
I see subframes for minis being made for this application , any comments ?
may be selling my donor civic, b18c4 with lsd , still in complete car so comes with everything .

Why I went B18 over the K20

Price at the time

Engine managment options at the time i.e imobilisers etc ment aftermarket was needed.

The B sits on the passenger side and I have achieved very good almost balanced corner weights with me in the car.

Personally I think you will struggle to get the standard inlet manifold in without modifing the bulkhead heavily and it will be in your shoulder if your tall, there might be a way round this tho that I can certainly think of

Sensible gearing is possible on both with the right choice of ratios and possibly swapping a few gogs around from a spare donor box.

I donot know hoe much physically bigger it is, but have seen one in a crx and its quite a bit taller than a B and does look larger, a B series is tight as it is.

Neil

Hi , thanks , as u know i bought a b18c4 in an aerodeck , i have been told although it is high geared it suits better the small wheels on our cars , but since then i saw a mini subframe which was meant for the k series honda, so i bought a k series ! i am tall and i am worried about the manifold lol , i think the bits have become more available as they are using this engine in many applications now?
i like the 6 speed box and the fact it does not have to be tuned for power , it already makes good power , i think if it will fit in a mini it should go in the gtm (says with fingers crossed )
I pick it up tomorrow , its done 18000 miles and is drive by wire, although i have been offered a cable throttle type manifold .
Finding out the weights and sizes on the net has proved to be difficult , so i guess its a case of suck it and see?
any info on these will be helpful ,
at this point i will keep the b18 just in case it is too tight on the manifold , i guess then it may find its way into something else
this will be my next project and will be covering it here , but i dont expect to be ready to start for a little while so now is the perfect time to gather information , thanks for your input , i hope i can rely on peoples engineering ideas if i get stuck !

oh and interested in your idea on the manifolds? does it involve a rotary muffler?

I had similar problems getting the 4age in the hole.

It's tall, but the only bit that pokes thru the engine cover is the plenum - I have modded the cover - quite substantially.

Megasquirt could well be the way to go with the K20, as you can junk pretty much all the wiring and the fly by wire.

And, I had to make a tubular exhaust manifold to clear the bulkhead and pass down the centre tunnel.

All lots of work, but no more than any conversion really.

Quite possibly sounds like your on a simular wave length certainly looks more likely from some pictures I have seen, it just depends if you can physically get it to fit down the side of the engine. As the space between the bulkead and tower is pretty tight.

My new Frame I am working on would give more room around the sides of the engine.


Neil

I have a B16 in my coupe rally car,but we are building a civic to rally next year as the GTM needs a big rebuild before 2012.
We have looked at all Honda only engines and decided to go B20,CRV block and my race B16 head,good for around 245/250 bhp and 150ft of touque.
I have 2 B16s a B16 a2,integra cams,B16b inlet spoon manifold 200 bhp very strong 2 overall tarmac championships with 16 class wins,and my unused B16B race/rally engine fully ported hear crower race cams,pullys flat face valves,deceked block,all near parts there as well,shes 235 Bhp but only 130ft touque.
Cost B20 with 245 bhp around £1200,there are no engines out there that are anywhere near these vtecs.
I hope the rally world im in now can see that.
Good luck with your engine what ever one you chose.
Dean Team GTEC

yer tis !
thats the easy bit done !
Thanks for your input pantera,neil and dean, i would be very interested to see photo's of your builds , for ideas and inspiration, and very interested in seeing your new subframe ideas, should it cope better with the tower twist i see mentioned on the honda/gtm being built in projects?
By the way looks like a top job so far. This is the only pics of a honda gtm i have seen on here ,in projects maybe im unable to locate more , but im not great on a pc.
I posted this angle pic of the new dilema to give you an idea of the size of the problem , as far as i can tell the inlet manifold is my biggest problem , i can weld alloys tho so maybe able to work something out , any ideas?
Driveshafts too have to be found and im searching for some that keep the original hub length and plan to use metro diss here maybe with handbrake calipers , the hunt is on.
I figure this would be my first move and then rig that up and see how it sits.
My idea at present is maybe cut the manifold off at the chamber and sink the tubes inside it , maybe blank off the bottom and remove the resonance chamber? and tuck it up close to the engine, maybe have a fresh air 'funnel at the front so as to 'ram air 'it to overcome any loss of performance , still having loads of thoughts about it ,trying to picture this and figure it out . and i figure if this would cause to much disruption the maybe i will have o keep that turbo idea in mind to force the issue?
Like the idea of a megasquirt too , have to look into that unless some here has prior experience?
Im having a busy week so i wont be able to do any offering up until the weekend although i will be trying to track down a set of shafts or looking into making some from the bits i have if all else fails although again if i have to fabricate and stuff it wont be looked at until the weekend , sometimes the week can seem to drag so much ........
I have read of Neils car performance on here and i guess maybe pantera and dean have good experience of big power in the gtm , would really like to know how they feel with all that fun squeezed in there ! what are they like to drive , does (bearing in mind i intend to use this car on the road) it have good manners , is the handling upset to any large degree, is there any handling mods would need to be considered?
Im figuring on putting lightened flywheel and maybe if they do one a pulley wheel and trying to lighted a few things to help with this, also try to keep weight central and balanced as much as possible , i was told this engine is only 7kg heavier than the rover vvc1800? need to do some weighing .
Im quite tall so have to consider occupant room in all this .
Oh and does anyone know if the torsen lsd can be fitted in the later box? is it the same torsen fitted to the championship white civic? i know its on the other side? but ? i read an aussie thread somewhere sugested it is possible , but only worth doing if its cheap? it would be ice if it was but if not something will be sourced any info gratefully recieved
Thanks again, simon

small update , gonna have to work out something , i measured 19" from drive shaft to furthest side of inlet manifold on the engine , and from the gtm driveshaft measured forward that puts it in an ideal place for a head rest inside the car lol
mmm , looks like the rest should fit , its 24 inches tallish which gives about 5" clearance under the sump to the road and looks like its ok at the top , but this was a rough measurement !
the gear linkage should be relatively ok to set up i think a rover mgf one could be adapted as in the elise conversion.

Have a few pointers:

That 19" is your limiting factor - you don't want to be hacking at the bulkhead as you'll be getting into IVA territory.
You might want to look at tilting the engine very slightly.
Mine clears the bulkhead by about 5mm. The only bulkhead mod i've done is to put a slight bulge in the sheet steel to clear the alternator.
I wouldn't worry about height or gearchange at this point, they're easy to sort later on. Main things are to get it in the hole with a subby under it, and exhaust - which WILL be a nightmare.

Join the club and get into my build diary, it'll give you a lot of insight.

Hmmmm, could be quite tempted to go down the Honda route, looks better and better the more i look but i know diddly squat about honda's engine range, don't want to go v-tec as i don't need that sort of power, what age and model cras had the B16 and B18 in them?
cheers.
scotty

Then go d16a9 twin cam 16v (around 130bhp), slightly smaller and lighter than a b16, Neil's first conversion Found in early Rover 216 Gti and some CRX's

Hi pantera , firstly iva ? whats that all about ? why would this be an issue and not chopping big bits out of the subby etc? secondly not sure about tilting as this may put the oil pick up in the wrong place etc, im thinking about a modified inlet manifold ,maybe a turbo if it disrupts airflow too much , i have a pic of a supercharged k and the inlet manifold is little more than a log about 2" deep i would say, i dont think the exhaust will be to bad being as it exits at the back so a simliar issue to the a series gtm here ,
Im really curious about the iva thing , the car i have lined up is redgistered 1963 , from its original donor , i mean if i was to alter the bulkhead as is would that also need iva? i was thinking all kits are built differently and seen allsorts of conversions in cars where the bulkhead has been enlarged like fitting v8s and also gearboxes where they foul in escorts etc, but not heard of any of those falling foul of iva etc , please throw some light on this ?
Hi scotty im no honda expert but would say vtec is the way to go , giving both good power and economy , maybe other owners can give you a better idea of what will fit and work best , cheers simon

oh and here is that pic of the manifold, .....

Hi Tim, i have come across the engine you speak of , fitted in rover cabriolet & 216gti, both of these had engine problems (headgasket), the other one i had was a honda crx mk1 fitted with it , this one was fine and pulled like a train, i think it made just over the 130bhp, slightly more than the rover version.
I think it may be harder to find a good one of these.
One of the reasons for trying to fit the k engine is the honda reliability, thinking once fitted in the car it will ( i hope ) stay there for many miles without having to come out for repair (well i can hope...)
Lots still to find out ... cheers simon

Ok brief input


Been There Done that on D16 and B18

D16 [rover gti twin cam] basically standard engine ended up with CRX ratios, taller diff. 0-60 in 5 dead, quater in 14.00 @100mph, slightly over 40mpg was achievable on runs.

B18C4, Standard skunk 2 manifold to remove the dual runners, slight alterations in ratios but bassically standard, 0-60 4 dead, quater in 12.9, my latest engine is bassically the same spec and does it in 12.84. true average mpg 37, with care on runs 42 has been achieved and 40 regularly.

I was looking at another solution to the K series inlet manifold

From memory bulkhead to axle center line is approx 17 inch With My B18 i have relived the bulkhead to give the exhaust extra room and the alternator as I moved it over to that side too.

Neil